Please read the excerpt from Odysseus in America (Odysseus Among the Rich Civilians) by Dr. Jonathan Shay that I posted on my class website. Then, in a comment, tell us how that made your see Book 8 differently or how it enriched your understanding of the text. Please use at least 3 vocabulary words in your response.
After reading this touching story of war and trauma, I have begun to see both Book 8 and the entire text in a much different manner. Firstly, the story gives examples of people who have just been relieved of war such as in Vietnam and have come home to their families or friends. It portrays that many of them must be “re-civilized” after returning because they have been exposed to such horrific events or have been away from home for such a long period of time. In the Odyssey, Odysseus shows his post traumatic stress disorder by weeping every time he hears something about the Trojan War or his fallen comrades in battle. Therefore, many people in modern days have trouble when people talk lightly or rudely over the purpose of war or its outcome. Also, in the novel, Odysseus is portrayed as the quintessence of great warriors who journeys home after war bearing many bitter feelings. These emotions usually rankle either the soldier himself or others around the fighter because of his reactions to certain people or discussions involving war. This can lead to many dangerous situations for average civilians if they unknowingly insult the war. Another way I look at the story much differently is that the method in which Homer portrays the other regular civilians is very controversial. One may say that many don’t care about the war or its soldiers, while others may argue that the story of war is just entertainment for them since they cannot relate to the battles. The civilians may have thought that one of Odysseus’ idiosyncrasies was his constant crying but they do not understand the underlying purpose for his pain. Overall, the book written by the famous doctor truly shines a new light on warriors and their odyssey back to civilization and happiness.
ReplyDeleteTruthfully, Odysseus is a protean man that can be viewed in a myriad of ways. He can be seen not only as witty but also as manipulative. He can be seen not only as a good husband but also as a man obsessed with kleos. However, one thing that cannot be denied is that Odysseus is cunning. That is a word without too much of a connotation, leaving plenty of room for us to judge Odysseus in any way we see fit.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Dr. Shay's article, I now respect Odysseus's sense of self. He knows it is incumbent on him to know his audience, and he does. He knows the Phaeacians are mere civilians and cannot understand his plight, so rather than saying something that rankles and turning his plan into a fiasco, he doesn't force them to. Knowing your audience is an invaluable skill even in modern Western society. I don't speak as freely in class or in formal settings as I do around my friends- no one does, regardless of age. You don’t tell jokes at a funeral and you don’t mourn at a baby shower. It is expected of you to behave like those around you unless they are engaging in illegal or immoral activity. The cliché “When in Rome, do as the Romans do” has some truth to it. This article has shown me that despite Odysseus's trauma and pain, he has his wits about him enough to know that he needs these people far more than they need him, and will entertain them to ensure he remains in good favor with his materialistic hosts.
The site disregarded my indentation before that second paragraph- sorry.
DeleteFor two consecutive nights Odysseus listened to stories of his experiences during the Trojan war, and each night the story was cut short as Odysseus was brought to tears from recollection of his traumatic odyssey. Upon reading the excerpts in which Odysseus breaks down from the post-war trama, I see one reoccurring theme: the inability to forget. This inability at first only seemed a theme, and a rather petty theme there simply to describe human nature. However, after I read the brief excerpt of Dr. Shay's work, I soon came to grips with the fact that I had understood the theme almost entirely wrong. I personally have never experienced such a distressing event that could bring me to tears from the slightest sound, smell, taste, or thought, but from Dr. Shay's work I certainly have newfound awareness and empathy for those who have experienced events that change the course of one's regular life. I can grasp reasons for even the strongest of minds to inevitably succumb to their strongest emotions. The fact that a war would decimate Odysseus's emotional stability can only be justified through perpetual loss and bloodshed. Dr. Shay's writing brought me to the realization that the theme of an inability to forget was truly my inability to understand.
ReplyDeleteThe story I had just previously read talks about a man that possess a variety of problems that affect him throughout everyday situations. In the beginning, he talks about how the fresh porkchop he is about to devour is sitting in the palms of his beating hands. He is eating it as if he were a barbarian. That is probably the way he needed to act when he was deployed. His actions reflect how he has been so traumatized by what has happened to him. He could have seen hundreds of people decimated right before his eyes. A sight that most people wouldn't be able to look at. Odysseus, in book 8, shows that even the most brave and courageous warriors can succumb to their inner and deepest feelings. The bard sings songs of the reminders of all the perils he had to face in the Trojan War. This forced Odysseus into loosing his senses and just bawl until his heart's content. Now through the readings and clips I have witnessed in class, I understand how hard it must be for the heros of our today, and Odyesseus, to be able to overcome their own odysseys in their minds. That struggle is something that can break anyone swiftly and painfully.
ReplyDeletePDSD is something that only people that have experienced it can really explain, however, this article allows us to better understand it in the perspective of Odysseus. He has a protean character that is easily manipulated by thoughts of his past war. After reading this article, I can better connect with the imagery that war related topics bring about. Rather than rankling Odysseus, he is brought to tears by Demdocus' song. It takes a long time to get from this to the point of "Re-Civilization." So much so that a large portion of PDSD affected soldiers do not recover. It is an odyssey in itself trying to get across this narrow bridge as some may describe it, but having read an article like Dr. Shay's readers of the Odyssey can better understand the stress inflicted on those affected by PDSD.
ReplyDeleteReading the excerpt made me understand the heartbreaks of Odysseus more than I had when I first read Chapter 8. Civilized people and men from war are completely different ---. As Odysseus enter the kingdom he wanted to relate and understand the kind of people they are. What comes to his minds was that they are not into combat sports, which surprises him. His mind is still set on the idea of war and winning respect by doing heroic actions. As for the king, when he saw Odysseus he felt sympathy for Odysseus. Alcinous is used to well polished people and does not understand the war zone. Odysseus is still trying to come to his sense of the civilized world after being away from home for so long. Alcinous does not realize the brutal life odysseus had experience nor do most of the Phaeacians. They find entertainment out of the epic poems of the Trojan war, but instead Odysseus feels pain and memories pore out of his eyes. I did not realize how much chapter 8 related the reality for our soldiers. We have been blinded from the brutal truth. We know it is going on, but since we are not effected it seems to slip our mind that our soldiers our dying for our country. The odyssey was and always going to be hard for civilized cities and war are two completely different ways of life. Adapting to one and returning to the other life is complicated. Chapter 8 is the perfect quintessence of real life soldiers and their experiences of coming back home. Many soldiers come home with a malady because of the things they had experienced in war. The Excerpt really helped relate to what is really happening from Odysseus' travel back compared to America's soldiers and their complications.
ReplyDeleteThis excerpt from "Odysseus in America" strengthened my respect for Odysseus and other veterans. After someone returns from war their odyssey is still far from complete. Seeing many friends die leaves a deep scar that although may not be evident the whole time is still very much there. After the war Odysseus was still a strong, powerful man, but one song relating to the Trojan war would set him off in tears. And know one else understood his emotion. They just enjoyed the good song. Some people were probably mad because Alcinous stopped the song for his guest's sake. After I read the excerpt from "Odysseus in America" I could more easily see that this 3000 year old story still very much relates to today. War decimates many lives, not only including the soldiers themselves but also their loved ones. Today soldiers are not honored or respected as they once were. Americans take it for granted that we are free. I feel like Americans mistakenly believe that their is a safety bubble around us and we will never come to harm. This safety bubble is not a force field, but human lives that are constantly being spent. So when the veterans come back from war we do not treat with honor or veneration, nor do most people reach out a hand to help people who have defended them. Similar to the "Odyssey" when the Phaeacians don't really care that this story is hurting Odysseus but just want to listen to a good song, hundreds of war games and movies are being made and played. These forms of entertainment do not intentionally downgrade soldiers but still make joining the army less of a honor and more of a game. This leaves many soldiers with the malady of post-war trauma but know one thinks its necessary to help them.
ReplyDeleteThe excerpt that I just read from "Odysseus in America" is one that can change the views of which you have on Odysseus, as well as anyone else who suffers from PTSD. Even though we see someone who has returned physically from an odyssey, we can tell that mentally they are not entirely back home. A veteran can be in the greatest physical shape in the world, yet they can have a mind that has been decimated by fighting in a war, a mind weak enough that words can bring the person to tears. As I now look back at Book 8 and the suffering that Odysseus goes through, it is blatantly obvious that he is plagued with a mental malady that will forever traumatize him. There is a fiasco going on in Odysseus's mind, as he deals with all sorts of things like the war, his ship crashing, his time with Calypso, and his thoughts of what his wife is going through at this time. He can't bear the truth, that he is cursed with something that makes him weak and succumbs to his stress by crying, the only thing that he feels he can do with himself.
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ReplyDeleteReading this excerpt opened my eyes to the truth about our soldiers, in addition to the ties between Odysseus and present day soldiers. Our society today expects returning soldiers to come home and return to the boy or man that he was before he left. This is an unrealistic expectation, given all the life threatening and startling events that go on over seas. The excerpt clearly states the fact that we don't honor or give enough compassion to our returning soldiers to the degree they deserve. To us it’s purely entertainment. The majority of these soldiers’ happy lives that they left have been decimated starting from when they left. From the point of view of the people, veterans are just narcissistic meatheads that need to return to society and become normal.
ReplyDeleteIn the story that is told in comparison to the odyssey, the man in the church looses his temper through his emotions for his dead friend and with the ridiculousness of his relative's remark. Odysseus doesn't have the luxury of loosing his temper or to let out his emotion. He must keep his composure in order to return home in one piece. This results in his request to Demodocus of singing about he Trojan war. Odysseus felt Catharsis during the song. We are lead to believe that the retelling of the story allowed Odysseus to cry out some of the emotions bottled inside. After Odysseus' odyssey, he is trying to adjust to the change from being a warrior to a husband, father, and to being a citizen again. This is parallel to the adjustment that most veterans still face today.
After reading the text, I have a better sense of the Odyssey. In Odysseus In America, it gives examples of things that someone would never think of saying to a war veteran. An example is "Why aren't over that Vietnam stuff yet". Now that it has been put in that light, I understand why Odysseus cried twice during the stories. It's because he is still traumatized by the Trojan War, but the Phaeacians think that the stories are just entertainment. Because of the war, Odysseus developed the idiosyncrasy of being almost cocky. Odysseus cannot burst out at the Phaeacians because he needs them to get home and finish his odyssey. Odysseus is no different from any war veteran suffering from a war, but cannot let his emotions get the better of him and cause a fiasco.
ReplyDeleteReading this excerpt by Dr. Jonathan Shay really makes us want to root for Odysseus even more. In the story it tells about a Vietnam veteran at a wedding and a Jimi Hendrix song begins to play reminding him of the friend he lost. Than someone with not the best judgement comes up the the veteran and confronts him about not being over the war. The soldier just walked out of the church while everyone just stood there and stared. Odysseus is in a similar situation but he cannot simply just leave. Demodocus sings a song about the odyssey of the Trojan horse. As he listens his protean personality makes him break down and just weep. Just like the story before no one realizes his tears but one person, King Alcinous. However, the king handles the situation a lot better than the cold hearted person to Vietnam veteran. But, the fact that everyone else took the song as entertainment and it brought Odysseus to tears shows something in people. The people who enjoyed the song aren't terrible people they just do not understand like Odysseus. They don't have the images of human beings decimating another like Odysseus. I think we should treat veterans with even more respect and kindness instead of making them outcasts.
ReplyDeleteThe excerpt from Odysseus in America really helps us understand how difficult it is for Odysseus throughout the Odyssey. Often when reading the Odyssey many of us think that he is simply on a physical odyssey, however we can clearly understand that he is on an emotional odyssey as well. The excerpt gives us examples of why it is hard for Odysseus in Phaeacia, but it also gives us present day examples of present day veterans suffering from similar situations. Odysseus finds it hard to listen to the story of his hardship while everyone else is entertained by the same story. Odysseus displays protean character and succumbs to tears. This is a similar reaction to that of present day veterans. We should understand that Odysseus is the suffering from the same things that current veterans of war diagnosed with PTSD and we should consider that as we continue to read the Odyssey.
ReplyDeleteThe excerpt from "Odysseus in America" made the effect of war or battle on soldiers much more clear, and help me better understand book eight in the Odyssey. Before, I thought the coming home of a soldier to only exemplify happiness or excitement. However, I failed to realize how greatly the man's life is changed. When Odysseus broke down during the song in book eight, the hardness and everlasting memories of his journey was shown. The clip helped me understand how the odyssey of going back to a normal life is not only hard, but can change your life forever. Soldiers now and in the time of Odysseus encountered the decimation of many human lives that could of easily been them. Also the feeling of personally killing another person can last with you for ever. Trying to return from war and have no troubles is a fiasco. No one now or then, even a smart man like Odysseus, can experience war and not be partially traumatized.
ReplyDeleteThe portion of "Odysseus in America" helped me understand that coming back from war is not what many expect. Many assume that coming home from war is a perfect, happy time. When returning from their long odyssey, the soldiers normally do not feel happy at all. The terrible events of the war rankle them in every way. The traumatizing events truly could decimate one's sanity. In this article, the most powerful part is the beginning, which is told in first person. The returning soldier is the quintessence of men returning from war, because the conversation about war causes him to react in an emotional way. When first reading book 8 of the Odyssey, one may think Odysseus is a crybaby. After reading this article, one could truly understand the many emotions that Odysseus is facing. It almost seems healthy for Odysseus to succumb to his emotions and weep, because that is the only true way he can heal.
ReplyDeleteIn both of these stories both of the war veterans were treated to a dinner or a banquet. This action of feeding the veterans is a code of Xenia, which is when you have a guessed and you basically treat them like royalty for a night or two. Now a days we do not really have that code of Xenia as we did back then. In Odysseus time period if you broke the code of Xenia then you were sent to the sixth level of hell. It is very important because you never knew who you were hosting. For instance you never knew if you were housing Poseidon in human form. But while both banquets were going on the other people who were attending the dinner could not stop staring at the war veteran. While these people were staring the war veterans were feeling a little isolated because the people around them can not relate to what they have been through. Each man has been through quite a fiasco and the odyssey that Odysseus has had causes him to cry so the king succumbs to his crying and tells the poet to stop singing at once. And with the other guy he is eating a pork chop with his fingers while everybody else is eating with their forks and knives. On there journey home or at home both men come to some impediments.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this article, I see Odysseus in a different light. I now see the fact that he was extremely mentally scarred, and may even have the awful malady of PTSD. When the bard was telling the story of the Trojan Horse, Odysseus began to cry. This plainly shows that a large part of his happy, pre-war life and mental state were decimated. However, as the article stated, Odysseus didn't have the luxury of being able to breakdown. While at the king's house, he was forced to be somewhat protean, changing from sobbing to putting on a brave face for everyone. This makes me realize that Odysseus was greatly affected by this war, and it wasn't simply a period away from home.
ReplyDeleteAfter I reading the excerpt, I could relate to Odysseus's point of view better. Although we assume it is simple to forget such a milestone in a veteran's life, it actually is very nerve racking. The veteran goes through many odysseys when they are trying to forget such a traumatic event. Soldiers tend to develop a protean behavior and many idiosyncrasies. We can see that Odysseus is also struggling in both ways: physically and mentally. He is experiencing post-traumatic maladies. We may not realize it but we assume that it will be very easy for one to forget something so important in their lives; we can never truly understand what a soldier goes through. Fighters tend to be sentimental, for example at the mere mention of the Trojan War, Odysseus bursts into tears. It is a hard test that all veterans undergo and it takes years to overcome.
ReplyDeleteThis excerpt from "Odysseus in America" makes me look at The Odyssey and war in general in a completely new light. I think we would all like to believe that after a soldior returns from war all is well and they live happily ever after, myself included. When I read the Odyssey with this mind set, the truly tragic aspect of the book didn't really occur to me. However, after watching the clips and class and reading this excerpt I have realized that the ideal "happily ever after" I invision rarely occurs. After seeing the decimation of so many people including friends it is virtually impossible to walk away unscathed. Many soldiors including Odysseus are subject to PTSD. Odysseus is the quintessence of an average soldior and his odyssey represents that of many other soldiors. In chapter 8 we see Odysseus break down time and again as he desperately tries not to succumb to his emotions but he just can not seem to keep it in. Again, I believe many soldiors have this attitude they want to appear strong to there friends and family and they neglect to let out there emotions and it ends up causing even more trouble down the road.
ReplyDeleteIn book 8 of "The Odyssey", the reader develops opinions about what Odysseus must be feeling during this difficult time. Most readers would not totally understand his emotions. Through one's eye, Odysseus must seem as if he has been traumatized. Although Odysseus is full of emotion, his weeping seems like it could be about a rather protean subject because of the fact that he has so much emotion, but then just gets over it. After reading the article titled, "Odysseus in America", I was stricken with a very different opinion. I learned that there are so many soldiers who are filled with the same sort of emotion that Odysseus is, they attempt to stop themselves from crying, but often succumb. This article helps you to open your eyes and actually realize the thought differences between a soldier and a civilian host. While civilians sit at home, scared of what might happen to themselves, they do not stop to think about the soldiers and how they are feeling. In fact, when soldiers return home, many civilians either one, continue their every day lives, or two, ask the soldiers about their hard times, but they really only want to hear good, they think of the stories as entertainment. While the soldiers attempt to continue their normal routine at home, they really can not because of the awful memories that have been pressed and hammered into their minds. They are overwhelmed with exhaustion and often do not want to let their feelings out. Of course after a long period of time of holding it all in, everything poors out. Sometimes just like Odysseus' immense shedding of tears. Reading about all of this, sets my mind in a whole new perspective of the true trouble that one soldier has gone through, and how much respect they actually deserve, but do not receive.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the excerpt from "Odysseus in America" My view on book 8 changed. When Odysseus' odyssey home took him to Phaecia, Nausicaa and other Phaecians showed unrivaled hospitality to the wandering soldier. While feasting, the bard Demodocus told the story of the Trojan War, when at that point Odysseus began crying. However, the Phaecians are not doing anything bad or hurtful towards Odysseus. They are just listening to the story, how they are accustomed to recounting war. The Phaecian's perception on the Trojan War is different from Odysseus, for he had firsthand experience. The events in the war were traumatic to the veteran, rankling Odysseus and making him succumb to the grief of war upon listening to Demodocus' tale. Therefore, Odysseus has a hard time adjusting back to civilization, as all soldiers do when returning home.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this excerpt by Dr. Shay, I finally understood more about what exactly Odysseus was going through emotionally. Many people see Odysseus in a negative light for numerous reasons such as wanting to stay with Calypso when his wife waits at home, his narcissistic ways, and manipulating people for his own benefit. But they forget about his truly horrific experiences that give these actions validity. After all, he did face death numerous amount of times and that alone is enough to cause serious psychological damage. I now understand the mixture of emotions he felt while the bard was singing about the Trojan War. People who found entertainment where I had seriously suffered and experienced loss would rankle me too. He succumbs to allowing his tears to shed because of the painful memories connected with this song that no one can relate to.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the excerpt from "Odysseus in America" I have come to realize the great trauma many of our veterans, as well as Odysseus, go through. Trauma is a malady that is inflicted through a tough time such as war. In case of Odysseus and veterans, war is the large malignancy. Although one may think they are just telling a story, one may actually be talking about an event someone has gone through. When Demodocus is retelling the story of the Trojan war as a sense of entertainment, Odysseus breaks into tears. The reason for signing the song war harmless, but it caused Odysseus pain because he went though what was being told. The excerpt talks about the same idea with veterans. Uncle Karl thought he was just telling a harmless story, but in reality he was telling a memory. Many people who stay home expect our veterans to return and fit right into the society, but it's not so easy. Some feel like succumbing due to the fact that it's hard to just let go and forget. But in the end their hard work and fight for freedom is greatly appreciated.
ReplyDeleteReading this excerpt about Odysseus in America it makes me feel more sympathetic towards Odysseus. When Odysseus had a protean moment while reliving the moments of the Trojan war, I had no sympathy towards him but now I do. When He asks the bard to tell the story of the trojan horse, his orignal plan was to make a quintessence of himself but instead it touches some nerves and he succumbs to his emotions. Now i believe that he does this because this is the only thing he knows.
ReplyDeleteThe excerpt definitely made my critical thinking process a bit more easier. I guess while reading this, you figure out that war is not the easiest thing. It really isn't. People are killed everyday just for us, americans. I don't think we take that into appreciation enough. Reading the story made me think twice about Odysseus and his long, treacherous odyssey. As in the novel, The Odyssey, Odysseus is seen or portrayed to have Stress Disorder and I think that is what contributed to him have breakdowns when the musicians sang and played about the trojan war. It's something he would never forget, and I'm sure never wants to relive again. He was being protean when all this was going on, we thought he was this strong independent man, but as the songs played and memories were affiliated, it put a large burden on Odysseus' shoulders. He faced death many times throughout his journey and I think all the trama from that is malady. I think this has given me a better outlook and perspective of the Odyssey, while I'm reading this.
ReplyDeleteThis excerpt has helped me see Odysseus in a new way. A first impression is very important to me, and to my beginning knowledge i saw Odysseus as a noble leader to his city and in war. Once we started reading, however, I saw him as a weak man once he was having an affair. My opinions of a person are very protean as the smallest detail can change what I think of a person. My opinion also changed once we read about Odysseus succumb to his emotions while the blind bard sang to him storys from his past. I saw him as a regretful man who wanted to change his ways and strive for home. My various opinions rankled my while I was trying to find a fair perspective on Odysseus. After reading this excerpt I believe that I have found the correct view. This has shown me that Odysseus is just like our modern day soldiers. I never made the connection. I am aware of our soldiers struggles once they return home because my sister has a need to help those who have served their country. Doing this she has taught me many things about PTSD and other struggles but i was never able to connect it to Odysseus. Now I see him as a respectable human who is doing a lot to try to return to his past life.
ReplyDeleteThe excerpt from Odysseus in America has completely changed my view of Odysseus. Before, he seemed a protean, although greedy, warrior, ready to get home and stay there. This excerpt, however, sheds a new light on his motives. Perhaps his motives are not about the accumulation of goods and Kleos, but more about preventing himself from succumbing to the rankling feelings that war brings. This is shown in many places, especially when he breaks down during the bard's songs. Also, his affairs with other women are probably attempts to forget his experiences during the war, as opposed to an unreasonable lust. His decisions that eventually get all of his men killed are also probably the result of a hardened heart from war. One could even make the argument that those decisions were made while he was under great emotional stress, which hindered his ability to think. i see him now as a man who has suffered much and just wants to get home and forget it all.
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